Amstrad DRX895 1TB Cannot Play Native Big Endian Copies

[SkySceptic]

Successfully migrated from Thomson Sky Plus to Thomson Sky HD using Copy+1.2.0.5 Stable version to also convert from Little To Big Endian - wouldn’t do copy over with Endian conversion in one operation so restarted Copy+ then asked it to convert the successfully copied but wrong Endian 300GB original disk from Thomson HD which then worked perfectly.

The planner was rebuilt on the Thomson HD box immediately after the original copy over and Endian change - the only other thing that comes to mind is that one film would stop the copy over from the Thomson Sky Plus to the Thomson HD Box - that film was then manually omitted and the copy over and conversion was then successful.

Now also have the Amstrad DRX895 1/1.5TB so wanted to copy the recordings from the Thomson HD box (to retire it) - the contents of this box includes the Little to Big Endian Converted Data from the original Thomson Sky Plus Box.

Opened up the Thomson HD and the Amstrad DRX895, connected them to the same computer using the same pair of SATA to USB adaptors, did a clean install of Copy+ 1.2.0.7 Beta version - no error messages whilst copying.

But Cannot play back or access anything that was recorded natively Big Endian from the Thomson HD box but can play back anything that was originally recorded in Little Endian on the Thomson Sky Plus box - also anything that was recorded on Thomson HD but not viewed went from being "Recorded" in the planner to "Failed" with "Technical fault" also Copy+ (with hindsight) did not show any "Anytime" recordings in the listing of the 300GB Thomson HD hard disk contents - nor did it show anything that was recorded on the Thomson HD box - only what was originally migrated from the little Endian Sky Plus box to the big Endian Thomson HD box - bizarre!

Is there some kind of limit on moving through successive generations of PVR's i.e. from PVR3 to PVR4 then PVR6

Then did a “Planner Rebuild” on the Amstrad - same problem - deleted all "Failed" recordings - same problem – yet another “Planner Rebuild” and still the same problem.

Help me resolve this absolutely maddening fault!

[pcbbc]

Is there some kind of limit on moving through successive generations of PVR's i.e. from PVR3 to PVR4 then PVR6

At the moment we are in a bit of a half way house:
The Sky+ (SD) boxes are all using a new planner database format (DB3 file extensions) as of EPG 5.07u. And while while they are migrating also appear to be keeping the old format (DBF) files back populated as well. Presumably this is so that there is a backout plan to downgrade the firmware if things go wrong with the new format.
The Sky+HD boxes are still all stuck on the old format DBF and aren't expecting and DB3 files (despite being on an apparent latter EPG version). Although usually if they are present the box just ignores them as it isn't expecting them.

I'm going to guess there has been some kind of interaction between your different boxes. To be honest this isn't the kind of thing that gets tested very often.
And certainly moving between box generations is probably not something Sky ever excpected to happen - we're lucky it works at all (especially with the database changes at the moment)

Also there have been issues with Copy+ misidentifying boxes as Australian or NZ and making errors in the disk layout on copy which also might explain some of your symptoms.

[SkySceptic]

So is this the end of the line for Copy+ ?

Because I migrated from Thomson Sky+ SD PVR3 to Thomson HD PVR4 whilst on EPG 5.07u which worked.

Have Sky successfully managed to lock Copy+ software out of their boxes to push sales of the new bigger hard disk drive boxes?

And certainly moving between box generations is probably not something Sky ever excpected to happen - we're lucky it works at all (especially with the database changes at the moment)

I am always amazed when anything to do with Sky works at all.

So how to go about resolving this problem successfully?

How can I find out if my box has been misidentified as Australian or NZ?
Which version of Copy+ should be used 1.2.05 or 1.2.07?

It seems the basic problem is that Copy+ 1.2.07 cannot read correctly the source hard disk (that it created itself - the irony! - but that was version 1.2.05) in my Thomson HD PVR4 as the on screen Copy+ listing of disk contents misses out "Anytime" entirely and half the rest of the disk contents so how to fix this problem Copy+ is having? Go back to 1.2.05 or will that not work with a PVR6?

There must be a way forward.

[pcbbc]

So is this the end of the line for Copy+ ?

No - For most people it works successfully.

Have Sky successfully managed to lock Copy+ software out of their boxes to push sales of the new bigger hard disk drive boxes?

Not as far as I am aware.
They could easily do this IF they wanted, and could have done a long time ago. However I suspect there would be a large amount of backlash given the numbers of copied drives out there...

It seems the basic problem is that Copy+ 1.2.07 cannot read correctly the source hard disk (that it created itself - the irony! - but that was version 1.2.05) in my Thomson HD PVR4 as the on screen Copy+ listing of disk contents misses out "Anytime" entirely and half the rest of the disk contents so how to fix this problem Copy+ is having? Go back to 1.2.05 or will that not work with a PVR6?

The not showing Anytime contents is a sure sign that the disk was misidentified and that a previous version of Copy+ was thinking the disk was NZ or Aus when it was not.

There must be a way forward.

I would need a copy of your image so I can work out why it is not being read correctly.
Edit: Also as I don't have a PVR4, 5 or 6 testing any of this is going to be very difficult.

[SkySceptic]

That is what is bugging me - it worked for me the first time (with a few glitches while copying) and now it will not work properly the second time even though this is the simpler of the two copying operations with no Little to Big Endian conversion required this time.

Interesting to know that Sky could have locked Copy+ out of the equation ages ago but have not - I personally suspect that Sky lack the wherewithal and backbone to do it let alone the technical nous (I mean if they still haven’t finished the planned database update for HD yet they are not exactly on top of the situation [is that why PVR3's are generally faster on instant rewind etc.then PVR4's?]) on the other hand Sky can be very perverse in their thinking and may think that a good solid backlash would stir up publicity etc. - who knows what makes Sky tick.

OK how do I fix the Aus/NZ problem is it a localization problem on my PC or is it a problem with the Copy+ software - maybe getting Copy+ to actually view the disk correctly and in its entirety would resolve the matter or be a good first step.

Can probably give you a copy of the disk image - tell me how / what you need etc.

I just assumed you had various boxes for testing and that is how you developed Copy+ - I have Sky boxes.

[pcbbc]

Interesting to know that Sky could have locked Copy+ out of the equation ages ago but have not

Well, first off they would probably have sent me a "cease and desist" which would probably have been enough.
The fact that they haven't I take to imply that while they might not approve, that they don't really care either.
In fact having a use base that tests new drives and their firmware against larger capacities for them has been of benefit in the past - so it's not all bad by any means.

I personally suspect that Sky lack the wherewithal and backbone to do it let alone the technical nous (I mean if they still haven’t finished the planned database update for HD yet they are not exactly on top of the situation [is that why PVR3's are generally faster on instant rewind etc.then PVR4's?]) on the other hand Sky can be very perverse in their thinking and may think that a good solid backlash would stir up publicity etc. - who knows what makes Sky tick.

Certainly some of the changes are performance related, but I suspect the major reason is reliability.
These things can't be rushed. They have massive install base out there and if things move very slowly, it's not through deliberate lack of desire to change things but through necessity.
I expect the reason with lagging behind with the HD boxes is because it is a relatively new platform with lots of other changes going on at the moment.

OK how do I fix the Aus/NZ problem is it a localization problem on my PC or is it a problem with the Copy+ software - maybe getting Copy+ to actually view the disk correctly and in its entirety would resolve the matter or be a good first step.

It is showing as UK in the Copy+ context menu?
Then that is what the installed version of Copy+ is recognising and copying disks as.

Can probably give you a copy of the disk image - tell me how / what you need etc.

I have a tool for compressing the pertinent parts of disks into manageable sizes for e-mail.
I will need to check out if this tool will work on images and send it to you.

I just assumed you had various boxes for testing and that is how you developed Copy+ - I have Sky boxes.

I have various selection of PVR1/2/3 boxes but I don't have a HD TV so never invested in a HD box.
I suppose it should be on the list of things to buy...

[SkySceptic]

The blue banner with the pink circular logo at the top of the programme said (according to a screen dump) "Copy+ Sky+ / XTV Drive Copy Utility - UK Sky+ EPG 5.07.u" I presume that is what you mean by context menu - the same row as the window minimize, maximise and close commands - but please correct me if you mean something else.

I would be happy to send you the relevant parts of the disk, send me the software tool you mentioned - with instructions.

I have various selection of PVR1/2/3 boxes but I don't have a HD TV so never invested in a HD box.
I suppose it should be on the list of things to buy...

PCBBC Why bother buying an HD box just for an HD picture - if you are happy with your selection of PVR's 1 thru 3 and if they are stable why "invest" in buying what could be an HD headache, the reasons I went for PVR's 4&6 was only really avoiding obsolescence re PATA vs. SATA HDD interfaces, the VOD "Green Halo" Ethernet Port (if VOD ever materialises and actually works), greater native HDD capacity, the ability to type in a programme name to search the planner for it - seem to remember you could do that on demo PVR1's in the shops though, and a few other none too conventional reasons - but not particularly just for HD output in and of itself.

[pcbbc]

The blue banner with the pink circular logo at the top of the programme said (according to a screen dump) "Copy+ Sky+ / XTV Drive Copy Utility - UK Sky+ EPG 5.07.u" I presume that is what you mean by context menu - the same row as the window minimize, maximise and close commands - but please correct me if you mean something else.

Actually I meant the menu you get by clicking on the Copy+ logo and selecting "XTV Platform".

I would be happy to send you the relevant parts of the disk, send me the software tool you mentioned - with instructions.

Tool and instructions are on their way.

PCBBC Why bother buying an HD box just for an HD picture

Yep - While the HD picture can be impressive, it also shows up SD too much. So I am happy with my naturally anti-aliased ageing JVC CRT for a while longer.
Perhaps by the time I do upgrade there will be a lot more HD content and it won't cost any extra!

Although the number of people with HD boxes now does perhaps mandate acquisition of a box for test purposes. I expect the Thomson units can be obtained quite cheaply now.

[SkySceptic]

So from the banner information does it look like the disk was correctly identified as UK Sky etc.?

I have used the software tool (thank you for checking it for compatibility and sending it over) to successfully capture the FAT image you requested but the file it created comes to 45,190KB and zipped 44,384KB that is between 44-45MB I think and you mentioned normally around 10MB in size (also re yahoo Email account limit) - is this kind of image file size normal for a 300gb standard Thomson HD Disk?

Obviously I would like to send you the FAT image file but how would you prefer to receive this size of file?

Yep - While the HD picture can be impressive, it also shows up SD too much. So I am happy with my naturally anti-aliased ageing JVC CRT for a while longer.
Perhaps by the time I do upgrade there will be a lot more HD content and it won't cost any extra!

Although the number of people with HD boxes now does perhaps mandate acquisition of a box for test purposes. I expect the Thomson units can be obtained quite cheaply now.

Yes the picture can be impressive but it is not a 1080 progressive output and some of the transmitted bit rates cannot keep up with a lot of simultaneous on screen action - the Thomson boxes can be obtained relatively cheaply but it is still a question of finding the right version and one that is not an irreparable dud but it can still be done!

[pcbbc]

So from the banner information does it look like the disk was correctly identified as UK Sky etc.?

The banner at the top shows you which XTV Platform you have selected.
You can change your active platform (if it has been identified incorrectly) by clicking the Copy+ logo and selecting "XTV Platform".

I have used the software tool (thank you for checking it for compatibility and sending it over) to successfully capture the FAT image you requested but the file it created comes to 45,190KB and zipped 44,384KB that is between 44-45MB I think and you mentioned normally around 10MB in size (also re yahoo Email account limit) - is this kind of image file size normal for a 300gb standard Thomson HD Disk?

Obviously I would like to send you the FAT image file but how would you prefer to receive this size of file?

There is also the -d switch which can be added to FAT2IMG so that it does not include the EPG database.
You might want to try that.

[SkySceptic]

OK so according to the banner the Thomson HD box was correctly identified as a UK Sky box etc. so it is perplexing why Copy+ 1.2.07 could not read the entirety of the disk it had created itself (using version 1.2.05) missing out all of anytime and half the user recorded disk contents - so I won’t touch any of the localization settings as they do not seem to be causing the disk contents reading problem.

Have tried your suggestion of "d" command line switch but file size even when zipped is still 24MB so will have to FTP it to you to get round the 10MB email limitation you mention - contact me to set it all up.

[pcbbc]

OK so according to the banner the Thomson HD box was correctly identified as a UK Sky box etc. so it is perplexing why Copy+ 1.2.07 could not read the entirety of the disk it had created itself (using version 1.2.05) missing out all of anytime and half the user recorded disk contents - so I won’t touch any of the localization settings as they do not seem to be causing the disk contents reading problem.

OK.
Is it possible that the shows being recognised are only ones that were on the disk at the point the copy of the original Thomson Sky+ SD PVR3 was made?
In this case Copy+ is looking at the DB3 version of the planner, rather than the DBF version which is being maintained by the HD box.
However I though I had resolved that issue by looking at the date time stamp on the files, and only reading the latest copy - which should be the most up to date.

Have tried your suggestion of "d" command line switch but file size even when zipped is still 24MB so will have to FTP it to you to get round the 10MB email limitation you mention - contact me to set it all up.

OK - Will attempt to setup FTP.

[SkySceptic]

The only shows being recognized are ones that were NOT recorded on the Thomson HD PVR4 - everything that went through conversion from little endian (Thomson Sky+ PVR3) to big endian works (for use in the Thomson HD PVR4) but nothing works that was actually recorded in big endian (natively) on a big endian box.

Note that things that the Amstrad lists on screen that will not play back were not listed in the Copy+ on screen listings so should not theoretically have been put on the Amstrad disk by Copy+ but are somehow there nevertheless - but are inaccessible by the Amstrad - pressing "Select" for playback has no effect.

Provided that you have by now successfully received the six emails I just sent you will by now have the 45MB FAT disk image that you requested - I used WinRAR to create a executable self extracting multi part compressed archive in five 9.5MB files. I resent you the executable volume one with .EXE renamed ._EXE_ to get around the Yahoo email filter you mentioned - so if the file (once you decompress it) is fine you will not need to set up FTP – please contact me with any further issues or developments.

[SkySceptic]

Hi pcbbc - I haven’t heard back from you for some time now - I was hoping that you have outwitted Sky and their multiple planner databases - or is Sky still giving you problems?

Because I still have the data (that Copy+ created) stuck on a PVR4 Thompson HD box and it is meant to be on the Amstrad PVR6 1TB box by now.

How’s it all going?